No trouble bubble! Itās been fun having such a friendly back and fourth about this!!! <3
Totally get you – and I also get (iām positive Iāve mentioned this before) that the emotional throughline of works like this is the idea of someone loving you despite you doing the WORST thing possible, and someone whose done the worst thing possible to you actually apologizing. I get it, and I totally respect it! Thing is, reactions to art really are about vibes, and for me, Junliās vibes are just WAY too rancid.
I think probably what would have made it work a lot better for me would be to cut out some of Qianās torture (possibly toss the ex husband and son bit) and replace it with more flashbacks to really establish a baseline for Junliās personality then vs now to really drive home his mental state and also to establish how Qian treated him to make him this angry. And then in addition, more time being devoted to him getting back to a stable place. That or, honestly??? Having Qian *ACTUALLY* betray him, get caught trying to rectify what he did, and having Junli making a choice to forgive him and feeling awful for going way too far in his revenge.
Like I keep saying, this is just what would be interesting to me PERSONALLY though!
Anyway! Happy reading to you too!!! I just remembered I did hear we get mermaids later and Iām SO excited to see how the artist depicts them if thatās so! It was one of the main reasons I decided to stick this one out LOL
@MissEve
Thanks for the overview I totally understand the whole situation now but STILL there are some things I would like you and the other pals to consider. So see I am not calling you out or anyone but just sharing these thoughts AND I VERY MUCH AGREE WITH YOU TOO OK.
RAPE. YES, IT WAS VILE OF HIM AND TRULY UNFORGIVABLE, HE SHOULD TAKE COMPLETE BLAME FOR THAT! But think about Junli’s mentality. We all are aware of the fact that the feelings of hatred, BETRAYAL, and ANGER had been accumulating within him FOR YEARS! And naturally, he just thought about how to make Qianqian suffer the WORST. You just can’t say that someone with such circumstances would be mentally stable right? His emotional state would be fucked up long ago and only the years of him being the god of war had helped him put a rather calm facade like that. PLUS he doesn’t have his spirit orb, which he believes was stolen by his beloved. With such an insane state of mind could he even consider what’s right and what’s wrong?
And it’s not even that he truly hates him to the core HE DOES HATE HIM but still wants to know if he truly pretended to be in love with him just for the spirit orb, deep in his heart he was hoping for it all to be a lie. I MEAN THAT’S WHAT HE BELIEVES RIGHT? THAT’S WHAT QIANQIAN WANTED HIM TO BELIEVE SO THAT HE COULD HATE HIM. So the fact that he RAPED him, a freakin HUGE NONO, was cuz he knew that qianqian would suffer miserably for that HE DIDN’T REALLY CONSIDER ANY OF THT. I AM NOT JUSTIFYING THE RAPE but saying that the junli at that time wasn’t the TRUE him. It was just his overwhelmed, drowned-in hatred self which he couldn’t possibly control cuz of the ANGER.
And yes about the other thing you said that he knew he had an imperfect understanding and all…Yes, I totally agree on tht as well. But again I m gonna say tht THAT WASNT who junli really is. Had qian ever reassured him about any of that…YES HE KNEW SOMETHING BUT NOT THE ENTIRE THING. remember how I said I didn’t blame anyone but the misunderstandings? So as I said junli was so freakin insecure, sometimes qian would stay with him to give relief but the nxt second he would run away. With his love-hate feelings and constant insecurity, he would naturally think twice or more than to believe him. Of course, he would doubt him!
ALL IN ALL i m just saying tht this wasn’t the true him but what circumstances had made him into! and looking through this POV it’s understandable y he did all tht IK THE RAPE IS STILL A NO, BUT U COULD JUSTIFY HIS ACTIONS SOMEWHAT, we saw it coming didn’t we
And ya thnx for your perspective I totally AGREE but hope you and the other dear readers could also know these facts before putting the entire blame on junli. But ya as you said this isn’t suitable for character study. Anyways happy readingš„¹(āĀ“ā”`ā)
Small addition! Think about it like this: think of the person you hate most in the world, right? Someone youāve fantasized about beating the absolute stuffing out of. If possible, some absolutely aināt shit ex. Iām sure we all have them. Would you ever consider *raping* them in front of your friends?
Again, for a third time!!! Not trying to change your mind! ^^;;; hopefully though you can maybe see the mental throughline even if you donāt agree!
SO, Iām not going to set out to change your mind, but hereās MY perspective, and I have a feeling it might be the perspective of a lot of folks: I completely empathize with Junli absolutely hating Qian and being completely vile to him. I think the issue is that for me, and I think for a lot of other people, this is absolutely the kind of thing where the buck stops at *very intentional, violent, PUBLIC, rape* and a death strung out over months or possibly years. I think for me and a lot of other people, Qian is too childlike and innocent and the story isnāt enough of a character study for that to work.
And thatās not to say itās BAD for it not to be a character study or for Qian to be presented that way (I will admit I find it annoying and off putting, but thatās a total me thing and Iām still firmly in his corner) but it does I think make it beyond the pale to a degree that I think a lot of people simply cannot get over. Personally, I had been under the impression that the condition of his spirit orb had actually made him EVIL, right? And the point at which I got enraged was when I realized that wasnāt the case.
The OTHER thing about Qian being the way he is is that he cannot fight back, and Junli hasnātā¦oh man, this is so hard to articulateā¦this isnāt a situation where Junli has FORGIVEN HIM and realized he went too far regardless of how justified his anger was. Whatās happened is that he realized he had an imperfect understanding of the situation and Qian did nothing wrong. Meaning he hasnāt actually had to CHANGE. So if this is who Junli is, what happens when the next person who finds Qian attractive comes along? What happens when Qian has to talk to his ex husband about plans for their childās future? Hell, what happens if Qian just *wants a friend*?
You know what I mean? If it all works for you, I think thatās INCREDIBLY based and also pog!!! Again, I donāt want to change your mind on this work, just trying to give you an idea of what I – and possibly what other people – are thinking!
guys why are you blaming Junli…Just imagine I MEAN IMAGINE OK. YOUR LOVER, THE PERSON YOU TRUSTED MOST, took your orb whatever thingie when you were literally dying almost while saying ‘i was only with you for this and never loved you blah blah’ and then you had to suffer for thousands of years getting mocked and tormented. However, you still had hope that it was all a lie and he would return and save you from all that, but then BOOM he doesn’t. JUST TELL ME HOW TF IS MY BABY SUPPOSED TO TRUST HIM?! TRUST HIM AFTER ALL THAT?? I DON’T THINK SO. Guys tell me honestly…if it were you would you just let it all go?? Guys, I m not saying our qian qian is at fault ok. IK why he did that, it was all for love BUT JUNLI ISN’T AT BLAME EITHER OK. Moreover our junli even decided to trust him right but it were just the misunderstandings that happened between them made junli break his legs and torture him. OUR JUNLI HAS ALREADY BEEN ENOUGH OF A SAINT OK. BUT HE HAS FEELINS TOO! HE WASN’T AWARE OF ANY OF THE THINGS OK SO FROM HIS SIDE HE WAS BETRAYED BY THE ONLY ONE HE HAD IN HIS LIFE….So please guys junli isn’t a scum and plz don’t say all that. Here BOTH OF THEM ARE VICTIMS AND EQUALLY PITIFUL!
Ye Junli, you are not allowed to make any more mistakes! I still think that it’s too early to forgive you but at the very least you really try to change. You better protect Qianqian!!
Hmm well atleast you suffered so I am okay if Qian Qian gave you a chance… I mean you were not aware of anything but it’s true you failed to understand your baby that time…no more mistakes got it junli
Does my name matter tho
@MissEve
Absolutely…tho sometimes this story is infuriating…somehow I want to read it anyways. But well let’s enjoy it otherwise hehe.
WAIT WHAT MERMAIDS!!!š¤©AHAJHKGJSGJ GOSHHH SO EXCITEDDD!!
MissEve
@does my name matter tho
No trouble bubble! Itās been fun having such a friendly back and fourth about this!!! <3
Totally get you – and I also get (iām positive Iāve mentioned this before) that the emotional throughline of works like this is the idea of someone loving you despite you doing the WORST thing possible, and someone whose done the worst thing possible to you actually apologizing. I get it, and I totally respect it! Thing is, reactions to art really are about vibes, and for me, Junliās vibes are just WAY too rancid.
I think probably what would have made it work a lot better for me would be to cut out some of Qianās torture (possibly toss the ex husband and son bit) and replace it with more flashbacks to really establish a baseline for Junliās personality then vs now to really drive home his mental state and also to establish how Qian treated him to make him this angry. And then in addition, more time being devoted to him getting back to a stable place. That or, honestly??? Having Qian *ACTUALLY* betray him, get caught trying to rectify what he did, and having Junli making a choice to forgive him and feeling awful for going way too far in his revenge.
Like I keep saying, this is just what would be interesting to me PERSONALLY though!
Anyway! Happy reading to you too!!! I just remembered I did hear we get mermaids later and Iām SO excited to see how the artist depicts them if thatās so! It was one of the main reasons I decided to stick this one out LOL
Does my name matter tho
Again sorry for the essayššŖ
Does my name matter tho
@MissEve
Thanks for the overview I totally understand the whole situation now but STILL there are some things I would like you and the other pals to consider. So see I am not calling you out or anyone but just sharing these thoughts AND I VERY MUCH AGREE WITH YOU TOO OK.
RAPE. YES, IT WAS VILE OF HIM AND TRULY UNFORGIVABLE, HE SHOULD TAKE COMPLETE BLAME FOR THAT! But think about Junli’s mentality. We all are aware of the fact that the feelings of hatred, BETRAYAL, and ANGER had been accumulating within him FOR YEARS! And naturally, he just thought about how to make Qianqian suffer the WORST. You just can’t say that someone with such circumstances would be mentally stable right? His emotional state would be fucked up long ago and only the years of him being the god of war had helped him put a rather calm facade like that. PLUS he doesn’t have his spirit orb, which he believes was stolen by his beloved. With such an insane state of mind could he even consider what’s right and what’s wrong?
And it’s not even that he truly hates him to the core HE DOES HATE HIM but still wants to know if he truly pretended to be in love with him just for the spirit orb, deep in his heart he was hoping for it all to be a lie. I MEAN THAT’S WHAT HE BELIEVES RIGHT? THAT’S WHAT QIANQIAN WANTED HIM TO BELIEVE SO THAT HE COULD HATE HIM. So the fact that he RAPED him, a freakin HUGE NONO, was cuz he knew that qianqian would suffer miserably for that HE DIDN’T REALLY CONSIDER ANY OF THT. I AM NOT JUSTIFYING THE RAPE but saying that the junli at that time wasn’t the TRUE him. It was just his overwhelmed, drowned-in hatred self which he couldn’t possibly control cuz of the ANGER.
And yes about the other thing you said that he knew he had an imperfect understanding and all…Yes, I totally agree on tht as well. But again I m gonna say tht THAT WASNT who junli really is. Had qian ever reassured him about any of that…YES HE KNEW SOMETHING BUT NOT THE ENTIRE THING. remember how I said I didn’t blame anyone but the misunderstandings? So as I said junli was so freakin insecure, sometimes qian would stay with him to give relief but the nxt second he would run away. With his love-hate feelings and constant insecurity, he would naturally think twice or more than to believe him. Of course, he would doubt him!
ALL IN ALL i m just saying tht this wasn’t the true him but what circumstances had made him into! and looking through this POV it’s understandable y he did all tht IK THE RAPE IS STILL A NO, BUT U COULD JUSTIFY HIS ACTIONS SOMEWHAT, we saw it coming didn’t we
And ya thnx for your perspective I totally AGREE but hope you and the other dear readers could also know these facts before putting the entire blame on junli. But ya as you said this isn’t suitable for character study. Anyways happy readingš„¹(āĀ“ā”`ā)
MissEve
Small addition! Think about it like this: think of the person you hate most in the world, right? Someone youāve fantasized about beating the absolute stuffing out of. If possible, some absolutely aināt shit ex. Iām sure we all have them. Would you ever consider *raping* them in front of your friends?
Again, for a third time!!! Not trying to change your mind! ^^;;; hopefully though you can maybe see the mental throughline even if you donāt agree!
MissEve
@Does my name matter tho
LMAO SO AGREE ON RANSHEN. He can die in a fire.
SO, Iām not going to set out to change your mind, but hereās MY perspective, and I have a feeling it might be the perspective of a lot of folks: I completely empathize with Junli absolutely hating Qian and being completely vile to him. I think the issue is that for me, and I think for a lot of other people, this is absolutely the kind of thing where the buck stops at *very intentional, violent, PUBLIC, rape* and a death strung out over months or possibly years. I think for me and a lot of other people, Qian is too childlike and innocent and the story isnāt enough of a character study for that to work.
And thatās not to say itās BAD for it not to be a character study or for Qian to be presented that way (I will admit I find it annoying and off putting, but thatās a total me thing and Iām still firmly in his corner) but it does I think make it beyond the pale to a degree that I think a lot of people simply cannot get over. Personally, I had been under the impression that the condition of his spirit orb had actually made him EVIL, right? And the point at which I got enraged was when I realized that wasnāt the case.
The OTHER thing about Qian being the way he is is that he cannot fight back, and Junli hasnātā¦oh man, this is so hard to articulateā¦this isnāt a situation where Junli has FORGIVEN HIM and realized he went too far regardless of how justified his anger was. Whatās happened is that he realized he had an imperfect understanding of the situation and Qian did nothing wrong. Meaning he hasnāt actually had to CHANGE. So if this is who Junli is, what happens when the next person who finds Qian attractive comes along? What happens when Qian has to talk to his ex husband about plans for their childās future? Hell, what happens if Qian just *wants a friend*?
You know what I mean? If it all works for you, I think thatās INCREDIBLY based and also pog!!! Again, I donāt want to change your mind on this work, just trying to give you an idea of what I – and possibly what other people – are thinking!
Does my name matter tho
Long ass lecture ik but i hope you all can understand that except ranshen bitch no one is a scum bag in this story…..
Does my name matter tho
guys why are you blaming Junli…Just imagine I MEAN IMAGINE OK. YOUR LOVER, THE PERSON YOU TRUSTED MOST, took your orb whatever thingie when you were literally dying almost while saying ‘i was only with you for this and never loved you blah blah’ and then you had to suffer for thousands of years getting mocked and tormented. However, you still had hope that it was all a lie and he would return and save you from all that, but then BOOM he doesn’t. JUST TELL ME HOW TF IS MY BABY SUPPOSED TO TRUST HIM?! TRUST HIM AFTER ALL THAT?? I DON’T THINK SO. Guys tell me honestly…if it were you would you just let it all go?? Guys, I m not saying our qian qian is at fault ok. IK why he did that, it was all for love BUT JUNLI ISN’T AT BLAME EITHER OK. Moreover our junli even decided to trust him right but it were just the misunderstandings that happened between them made junli break his legs and torture him. OUR JUNLI HAS ALREADY BEEN ENOUGH OF A SAINT OK. BUT HE HAS FEELINS TOO! HE WASN’T AWARE OF ANY OF THE THINGS OK SO FROM HIS SIDE HE WAS BETRAYED BY THE ONLY ONE HE HAD IN HIS LIFE….So please guys junli isn’t a scum and plz don’t say all that. Here BOTH OF THEM ARE VICTIMS AND EQUALLY PITIFUL!
MissEve
Thatās a lotta big talk about seeing people for who they really are for someone who is absolute dogshit at it, Junli
Literally die mad, youāre irredeemable garbage and Iām only here for the fox.
TheOneWhoWasRightAllAlong
Ye Junli, you are not allowed to make any more mistakes! I still think that it’s too early to forgive you but at the very least you really try to change. You better protect Qianqian!!
Baby01
Hmm well atleast you suffered so I am okay if Qian Qian gave you a chance… I mean you were not aware of anything but it’s true you failed to understand your baby that time…no more mistakes got it junli