@MMthebest i know ur feelings rn n in one manhau I’ve read the ml fell in love with mc when mc was cross-dressing as a woman and ml forced mc wear fake hair and women’s clothes
(sorry for bad english)
Thereās also the way these works are published – theyāre generally based on one persons passion project that they often put out for free, and between that and the massive amount of output, Iām sure thereās not a lot in the way of editors and sensitivity readers. Generally less my thing, but like you say, itās really cool that they put their work out there for the pure joy of creating and hopefully making some people happy, and the rawness of works like that can be a very interesting experience!
@Misseve I think it has to do too with the issues of censorship in China, so authors in a way, just do what they can. Probably if there wasn’t so many restrictions and risks to their livelihood, they would feel freer to do much more with their stories and push the envelope more. That’s also why I tend to be more considerate about manhuas and what they manage to present. It must be hard for these authors, but still they are willing to share their stories to express themselves somehow and entertain the fans. I’m guessing that korean authors are freer in what they do though, but I haven’t had much time to read a lot in that side.
Ahahahaā¦I have to make a confession, I left the BL scene for aboutā¦gosh, I think probably close to 15 years at this point? See, when youāre part of the community, works created about the community BY the community ring a lot more true, and since English is my first language and I live in North America, and as LGBT content has become so much more accessible over the last decade, the books and shows and comics I choose tend to originate over here.
I say all that to say that Iāve been dipping my toe back in ever since falling in love with Heaven Officialās Blessing, Sasaki and Miyano, and I had NO IDEA and couldnāt believe it when I discovered people still said āsemeā and āukeā until I watched Sasaki and Miyano. Every time I hear it itās like being roundhouse kicked back into middle school LOLLOL
Honneeessssssttttlyyyy I wish that distinction didnāt apply to fully 99% of BL media. Obviously there do in fact exist hot wealthy 6ā2ā leather daddies who like dating hot 23 year old twinks, and thatās awesome and very sexy of them and they absolutely oughta have their stories told, it just most definitely doesnāt apply to the entire community.
As far as gender presentation goes, Iām not fussed (partially related, I would love to find a really beautiful comic where one of the romantic leads is a drag performer), MY thing is essentially whatever that IS, the characters should feel like people and it should be something the character takes joy in. Honestly, as a society I think itās important that we start making space for men to actually feel comfortable presenting more femme if thatās what they want and not use that entirely as a joke or a fetish or as a combo of the two.
I do absolutely get where youāre coming from though, and I would have to say that at a certain point, some of these authors just need to embrace that their story simply maybe ought to feature a transgender character – either a trans man if you want to do the pregnancy story (not all the time, but itās weird to me that NONE of them seem to be) or a trans woman if youāre presenting the character as a woman (see above brackets LOL).
@misseve I do see what you mean, everyone has some types that they don’t like and it’s ok and valid. For me particularly I get weird with manhuas where they draw the uke almost exactly like a girl, because then its hard to see it as a bl manhua, so it takes a lil off the appeal of the story.
I just thought that the first poster was being too harsh with this story and it didn’t deserve it, compared to other manhuas. Because its obviously just a trick and has been given a purpose too of protecting the master’s identity for a while. And well, Yin Li has been tricking the master left and right in all the story, so doesn’t feel like this will be anything major, aside just being a whim š. Yin Li is indeed a bizarre obsessed person lol, but he does seem to like the master no matter what form he takes, whether he is in another body (like the master was in the beginning), or when he was in a wolf cub form and who knows maybe even if the master was in a woman form he would like him lol kinda like I wouldn’t be surprised if Yin Li is in love with his soul atp š But yes like you said, its fine too if others can’t see it in that way and just enjoy what they like.
Oh and I should also say – Iām trying to explain, not change your mind! And I donāt think youāre like, a bad person – you seem super sweet! My goal here is simply for you to say āoooooh I see what theyāre sayingā and carry on with your day enjoying whatever media pleases you!
I, and I would say the other person pointing it out, donāt mean the character of YinLi (although if I were in this world I would skin him alive while over loudspeaker blasting the definition of consent on a loop, he SUCKS), Iām talking about the context *in this and other similar works* – we as the audience are clearly supposed to be having a bit of a cheeky laugh, both at the man in a dress thing and also people attracted to him because they think heās a woman, even if weāre probably also expected to find it a little hot.
And likeā¦nobody is pointing to this work as the root of all evil. Take HOB, a work I otherwise adore and whose manhua adaptation I salivate over. Nobody is forcing Xie Lian to wear womenās clothing when he uses it to lure the ghost in that early arc, heās doing it with a purpose in the story, and for the audience, it serves two additional purposes – the first is a laugh, reinforced by the reaction of his martial god companions.
The other reason they do this in HOB is to get Xie Lian and Hua Cheng in wedding clothing together, or in Hua Chengās case evoking it by his choice of colour I believe. Now my question is this – if both of them in their every day lives prefer to present in clothing generally worn by men, why couldnāt they both be wearing male wedding attire? This genre apparently has an obsession with presenting the ābottomā as close to a woman as possible when all of these character archetypes *Iāve* seen express a vocal interest in the work in NOT being seen as such. It would be one thing if a plot point was that they actually liked to wear dresses and play with presentation on their own, and delight in an opportunity to do it, but Iāve yet to see that. Maybe you know something I donāt and this is the genuine start of a GNC or trans awakening for this particular character, but unless thatās the case, I stand by what Iām saying.
@MissEve I think they are forgetting to see the context in this story. Yin Li is not doing it in a demeaning way, he is doing it in a mischievous way, which suits his characterās personality. Itās not something done to be mean either because we all know Yin Li loves his Master and wants him by his side forever. But I get what people say about other manhuas doing it in a bad way and I agree its weird
(And jus to be INESCAPABLY CLEAR HERE since you canāt edit comments – a man dressing in feminine clothes or as a woman because he wants to? Incredible, show stopping, we stan – a man being strong armed into it? Booooo tomato tomato tomato)
Iāll ALSO add that the other thing about the trope I donāt like is that it indicates to me a lack of understanding of the difference between a trans woman and a gay man
I think what they were talking about is that in this genre of like, bl comics, thereās (and Iām saying this as a gay woman) a tendency to likeā¦itās hard to describe, but essentially itās like, 10 degrees off straight washing the couple.
Trans or cis, your gender is your gender and how you perform that gender is entirely up to you. The relevant thing here is that he was obviously extremely uncomfortable doing it one chapter ago *shrug* heās not exploring his gender, it comes off to me as a frankly rather demeaning and unkind joke.
@MMthebest maybe it is like that on other manhuas but in this case it isnāt like that š because we all know their backstory, that Yin Li likes and fell in love with the master as a man, waited years for him and is obsessed with him. So in this situation, it seems he was just curious of how he would look in a women dress š itās not that he wants him to be a woman. Plus there is nothing wrong or weak about wearing womenās clothes anyway.
But seriously though, attributing female characteristics to shou is such a disgusting trait of Chinese BL manhuas.
Shou are not female, people!!!! They’re as much men as the gong!!!!
I hope they would really think about this trend!!! It’s disgusting and fucking messedup!!!!
There’s no problem with being a woman. But no one has the right to force women to be men or men to be woman.
If the gong really wants to see a person in women clothing then maybe they should pursue a woman and not pressure a man into submitting to their fantasies!!!!
(And I’m not talking about couples or individuals even, who have both gave consent to this, I’m talking about cases that the gong thinks the shou is a woman and treats him as a “her” just because he can be the top!!!!)
Ahmed
So pretty
Silver Amethyst
I thought CY trick his Master into Marrying him this Timeš¤
Mo0n_raBb1t
Am I the only one who’s concerned about that red dress? Isn’t that a wedding dress?? Kdnjzbznzms
Val010
She was a āØfairyāØ
Look im straight but in that dress hes so pretty but like is that then still considered straight bc yk he is still a man tho
muffin
Oh god the master look so stunning š¤š¤
and yin li jealous.I love how he overprotective towards his future hubby š¤£š¤£
kawaiikitsumefoxy
@MMthebest i know ur feelings rn n in one manhau I’ve read the ml fell in love with mc when mc was cross-dressing as a woman and ml forced mc wear fake hair and women’s clothes
(sorry for bad english)
Timkusahcpel
He is jealous to hello …haha
MissEve
Thatās a lovely way to look at it!
Thereās also the way these works are published – theyāre generally based on one persons passion project that they often put out for free, and between that and the massive amount of output, Iām sure thereās not a lot in the way of editors and sensitivity readers. Generally less my thing, but like you say, itās really cool that they put their work out there for the pure joy of creating and hopefully making some people happy, and the rawness of works like that can be a very interesting experience!
Puing puing
@Misseve I think it has to do too with the issues of censorship in China, so authors in a way, just do what they can. Probably if there wasn’t so many restrictions and risks to their livelihood, they would feel freer to do much more with their stories and push the envelope more. That’s also why I tend to be more considerate about manhuas and what they manage to present. It must be hard for these authors, but still they are willing to share their stories to express themselves somehow and entertain the fans. I’m guessing that korean authors are freer in what they do though, but I haven’t had much time to read a lot in that side.
MissEve
Ahahahaā¦I have to make a confession, I left the BL scene for aboutā¦gosh, I think probably close to 15 years at this point? See, when youāre part of the community, works created about the community BY the community ring a lot more true, and since English is my first language and I live in North America, and as LGBT content has become so much more accessible over the last decade, the books and shows and comics I choose tend to originate over here.
I say all that to say that Iāve been dipping my toe back in ever since falling in love with Heaven Officialās Blessing, Sasaki and Miyano, and I had NO IDEA and couldnāt believe it when I discovered people still said āsemeā and āukeā until I watched Sasaki and Miyano. Every time I hear it itās like being roundhouse kicked back into middle school LOLLOL
Honneeessssssttttlyyyy I wish that distinction didnāt apply to fully 99% of BL media. Obviously there do in fact exist hot wealthy 6ā2ā leather daddies who like dating hot 23 year old twinks, and thatās awesome and very sexy of them and they absolutely oughta have their stories told, it just most definitely doesnāt apply to the entire community.
As far as gender presentation goes, Iām not fussed (partially related, I would love to find a really beautiful comic where one of the romantic leads is a drag performer), MY thing is essentially whatever that IS, the characters should feel like people and it should be something the character takes joy in. Honestly, as a society I think itās important that we start making space for men to actually feel comfortable presenting more femme if thatās what they want and not use that entirely as a joke or a fetish or as a combo of the two.
I do absolutely get where youāre coming from though, and I would have to say that at a certain point, some of these authors just need to embrace that their story simply maybe ought to feature a transgender character – either a trans man if you want to do the pregnancy story (not all the time, but itās weird to me that NONE of them seem to be) or a trans woman if youāre presenting the character as a woman (see above brackets LOL).
Puing puing
@misseve I do see what you mean, everyone has some types that they don’t like and it’s ok and valid. For me particularly I get weird with manhuas where they draw the uke almost exactly like a girl, because then its hard to see it as a bl manhua, so it takes a lil off the appeal of the story.
I just thought that the first poster was being too harsh with this story and it didn’t deserve it, compared to other manhuas. Because its obviously just a trick and has been given a purpose too of protecting the master’s identity for a while. And well, Yin Li has been tricking the master left and right in all the story, so doesn’t feel like this will be anything major, aside just being a whim š. Yin Li is indeed a bizarre obsessed person lol, but he does seem to like the master no matter what form he takes, whether he is in another body (like the master was in the beginning), or when he was in a wolf cub form and who knows maybe even if the master was in a woman form he would like him lol kinda like I wouldn’t be surprised if Yin Li is in love with his soul atp š But yes like you said, its fine too if others can’t see it in that way and just enjoy what they like.
MissEve
Oh and I should also say – Iām trying to explain, not change your mind! And I donāt think youāre like, a bad person – you seem super sweet! My goal here is simply for you to say āoooooh I see what theyāre sayingā and carry on with your day enjoying whatever media pleases you!
MissEve
Ah, I see part of the misunderstanding.
I, and I would say the other person pointing it out, donāt mean the character of YinLi (although if I were in this world I would skin him alive while over loudspeaker blasting the definition of consent on a loop, he SUCKS), Iām talking about the context *in this and other similar works* – we as the audience are clearly supposed to be having a bit of a cheeky laugh, both at the man in a dress thing and also people attracted to him because they think heās a woman, even if weāre probably also expected to find it a little hot.
And likeā¦nobody is pointing to this work as the root of all evil. Take HOB, a work I otherwise adore and whose manhua adaptation I salivate over. Nobody is forcing Xie Lian to wear womenās clothing when he uses it to lure the ghost in that early arc, heās doing it with a purpose in the story, and for the audience, it serves two additional purposes – the first is a laugh, reinforced by the reaction of his martial god companions.
The other reason they do this in HOB is to get Xie Lian and Hua Cheng in wedding clothing together, or in Hua Chengās case evoking it by his choice of colour I believe. Now my question is this – if both of them in their every day lives prefer to present in clothing generally worn by men, why couldnāt they both be wearing male wedding attire? This genre apparently has an obsession with presenting the ābottomā as close to a woman as possible when all of these character archetypes *Iāve* seen express a vocal interest in the work in NOT being seen as such. It would be one thing if a plot point was that they actually liked to wear dresses and play with presentation on their own, and delight in an opportunity to do it, but Iāve yet to see that. Maybe you know something I donāt and this is the genuine start of a GNC or trans awakening for this particular character, but unless thatās the case, I stand by what Iām saying.
You understand what I mean?
Puing puing
@MissEve I think they are forgetting to see the context in this story. Yin Li is not doing it in a demeaning way, he is doing it in a mischievous way, which suits his characterās personality. Itās not something done to be mean either because we all know Yin Li loves his Master and wants him by his side forever. But I get what people say about other manhuas doing it in a bad way and I agree its weird
MissEve
(And jus to be INESCAPABLY CLEAR HERE since you canāt edit comments – a man dressing in feminine clothes or as a woman because he wants to? Incredible, show stopping, we stan – a man being strong armed into it? Booooo tomato tomato tomato)
MissEve
Iāll ALSO add that the other thing about the trope I donāt like is that it indicates to me a lack of understanding of the difference between a trans woman and a gay man
MissEve
I think what they were talking about is that in this genre of like, bl comics, thereās (and Iām saying this as a gay woman) a tendency to likeā¦itās hard to describe, but essentially itās like, 10 degrees off straight washing the couple.
Trans or cis, your gender is your gender and how you perform that gender is entirely up to you. The relevant thing here is that he was obviously extremely uncomfortable doing it one chapter ago *shrug* heās not exploring his gender, it comes off to me as a frankly rather demeaning and unkind joke.
Anyway, tried this, DNFing. Ugh and also gross.
Puing puing
@MMthebest maybe it is like that on other manhuas but in this case it isnāt like that š because we all know their backstory, that Yin Li likes and fell in love with the master as a man, waited years for him and is obsessed with him. So in this situation, it seems he was just curious of how he would look in a women dress š itās not that he wants him to be a woman. Plus there is nothing wrong or weak about wearing womenās clothes anyway.
MMthebest
But seriously though, attributing female characteristics to shou is such a disgusting trait of Chinese BL manhuas.
Shou are not female, people!!!! They’re as much men as the gong!!!!
I hope they would really think about this trend!!! It’s disgusting and fucking messedup!!!!
There’s no problem with being a woman. But no one has the right to force women to be men or men to be woman.
If the gong really wants to see a person in women clothing then maybe they should pursue a woman and not pressure a man into submitting to their fantasies!!!!
(And I’m not talking about couples or individuals even, who have both gave consent to this, I’m talking about cases that the gong thinks the shou is a woman and treats him as a “her” just because he can be the top!!!!)
purplelotus
PLAN BACKFIRED LMAOO
MMthebest
Oh my xianzun!!!!
If only you knew!!! š¤£š¤£š¤£